GTR vs ZR1 - Not What You Think
08-29-2008, 08:31 AM
#41
Newbie
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 13
Just to chime in. The GTR accomplishes what it does with well UNDER 480bhp at the wheels. THAT is impressive. Its been dynoed at about 430 -> 440. With new exhaust and intakes it coudl reach 500bhp at the wheels, IE: the V.
I always think car companys by comparing their engines:
GM has their 6.whatever liter hemispherical V8 engines that put out about 375 -> making about 360 at the wheels.
Corvette ZO6 uses, what, a 5.7 liter LS6 V8 engine to put out about 400 (with matching torque).
Ferrari uses, on the 430, a 4.2 liter V8 to make around 430bhp -> about 420 at the wheels (with about 350lb/ft?)
A comperable Mercedes would be the last-gen 5.4 liter "55" engines without the supercharger, they put out about 360 with matching torque.
Nissan's GTR uses a 3.8 liter Twin Turbo V6 to make ~480 with 440 at the wheels and matching torque.
Conclusion: the GTR engine is the most efficient use of space, gas, and mass (weight ;p ).
Dont bring up the porsche though, then it gets competitive!
I always think car companys by comparing their engines:
GM has their 6.whatever liter hemispherical V8 engines that put out about 375 -> making about 360 at the wheels.
Corvette ZO6 uses, what, a 5.7 liter LS6 V8 engine to put out about 400 (with matching torque).
Ferrari uses, on the 430, a 4.2 liter V8 to make around 430bhp -> about 420 at the wheels (with about 350lb/ft?)
A comperable Mercedes would be the last-gen 5.4 liter "55" engines without the supercharger, they put out about 360 with matching torque.
Nissan's GTR uses a 3.8 liter Twin Turbo V6 to make ~480 with 440 at the wheels and matching torque.
Conclusion: the GTR engine is the most efficient use of space, gas, and mass (weight ;p ).
Dont bring up the porsche though, then it gets competitive!
10-25-2008, 02:17 AM
#42
Newbie
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 2
I own a 2001 Porsche 911 Turbo and a 2004 Corvette Z06:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22947427@N05/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/3103117...7607674234999/
The feeling of driving a Porsche is totally different than Corvette. However in short, for a regular driver like me, Porsche is very easy for handling, while Corvette is power.
I've never driven a Japanese sport car before. I will buy a GTR by the end of this year, I saw several listing on Ebay is about $5k over MSRP. I will come back to this forum and share my experience with you.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22947427@N05/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/3103117...7607674234999/
The feeling of driving a Porsche is totally different than Corvette. However in short, for a regular driver like me, Porsche is very easy for handling, while Corvette is power.
I've never driven a Japanese sport car before. I will buy a GTR by the end of this year, I saw several listing on Ebay is about $5k over MSRP. I will come back to this forum and share my experience with you.
10-28-2008, 03:40 PM
#43
Newbie
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 8
You can't speak for all GTR fans or Vette fans, because people like me are fans of both. To be honest I just like great cars, no matter who makes them. You coming in here stirring up another argument doesn't show much maturity on your part. I rather see a Porsche on top, which the GT2 was for a short while, but I like to see the good competition, it's producing such great cars in the process.
10-28-2008, 04:38 PM
#44
GTR Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 869
Yes, at this top level of performance, there is not a "best" car. It is really about the choice of the buyer and the tastes associated with each car.
You will not go "wrong" by purchasing a Z06, ZR1, GT2, GT3, 997tt, or R35. They're all amazing machines and offer unique experiences to each.
Driver skill on a race track will be far more of a factor than just the car itself.
You will not go "wrong" by purchasing a Z06, ZR1, GT2, GT3, 997tt, or R35. They're all amazing machines and offer unique experiences to each.
Driver skill on a race track will be far more of a factor than just the car itself.
11-14-2008, 09:47 PM
#45
Newbie
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7
Just to chime in. The GTR accomplishes what it does with well UNDER 480bhp at the wheels. THAT is impressive. Its been dynoed at about 430 -> 440. With new exhaust and intakes it coudl reach 500bhp at the wheels, IE: the V.
I always think car companys by comparing their engines:
GM has their 6.whatever liter hemispherical V8 engines that put out about 375 -> making about 360 at the wheels.
Corvette ZO6 uses, what, a 5.7 liter LS6 V8 engine to put out about 400 (with matching torque).
Ferrari uses, on the 430, a 4.2 liter V8 to make around 430bhp -> about 420 at the wheels (with about 350lb/ft?)
A comperable Mercedes would be the last-gen 5.4 liter "55" engines without the supercharger, they put out about 360 with matching torque.
Nissan's GTR uses a 3.8 liter Twin Turbo V6 to make ~480 with 440 at the wheels and matching torque.
Conclusion: the GTR engine is the most efficient use of space, gas, and mass (weight ;p ).
Dont bring up the porsche though, then it gets competitive!
I always think car companys by comparing their engines:
GM has their 6.whatever liter hemispherical V8 engines that put out about 375 -> making about 360 at the wheels.
Corvette ZO6 uses, what, a 5.7 liter LS6 V8 engine to put out about 400 (with matching torque).
Ferrari uses, on the 430, a 4.2 liter V8 to make around 430bhp -> about 420 at the wheels (with about 350lb/ft?)
A comperable Mercedes would be the last-gen 5.4 liter "55" engines without the supercharger, they put out about 360 with matching torque.
Nissan's GTR uses a 3.8 liter Twin Turbo V6 to make ~480 with 440 at the wheels and matching torque.
Conclusion: the GTR engine is the most efficient use of space, gas, and mass (weight ;p ).
Dont bring up the porsche though, then it gets competitive!
A VR38DETT engine weights 608lbs. A LS7(C6 Z06 engine) weights 448lbs.
You talk about eficiency, about gas, about mass..
1) Eficiency the LS7 produces 505hpand 470lbs with only 448lbs of weight while a VR38DETT makes 480hp and 430lb-tq with 608lbs.
2) Gas? sure.. the Z06 accomplishes 15 and 24mpg HWY which is actually high 20's HWY, what about the GTR?
3)Mass?, the LS7 takes less space than the VR38 and please don't forget stuff like Intercoolers and intercooler pipes, remember? "the GTR is very sophisticated" so it needs all the bells and wistles..
As per the optimistic dyno numbers that you gave us here is a video of a GTR putting down 406whp and 399lb-q. Have you ever heard : Good from far but far from good? exactly!!
Look, I am going to finish my statement with good positive note, the GTR is an incredible car, I personally like it a lot but I don't support unneccesry hype not just from the GTR but from any ther car.
I have on hand every car magazine in which the GTR hasd been compared to other cars and I watched many videos, most of the good reports on this car ae true, others are not so true. My point today is that you have to see things from all different perspectives then make your own conclusions.
Here is an interesting video:
GTR http://honda-portal.com/honda-videos.php?video_id=1148
11-15-2008, 10:17 PM
#46
Newbie
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 5
I dont own either car. I drive a mitubishi evolution 9 but I will take the GTR over the Corvette any day of the week. The GTR is way more mod friendly and the Vette takes a lot more work to mod. I dont give a rats A$$ which car makes more power STOCK. Stock numbers dont mean squat its what you can obtain with mods without major work that matters. That why I got the evo. I can just stick in a bigger turbo, upgrade the exhuast maybe add some meth and can get 400-500 @ the wheels with no issues at all. We all know the history if the skyline and how mod friendly those guys are and how much power they can make. A vette can make some serious power but require a whole lot more work to make it happen.
11-16-2008, 02:52 PM
#47
Newbie
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7
Sure. So let see, all I have to do is buy a 1990 Honda civic base model(1.5l with 70hp) then drop a Honda H22 engine, after all the stock engine power doesn't mean a rat a$$. This way I can have a very reliable engine with minimal work(just swpp the engine and some ECU harness and what not.
Not everyone like to mod their cars. Not everyone think the way you think, I don't think a Buggati Veiron owner purchased his car with the idea in mind that stock is not enough and that the stock power doesn't mean rat Asswhile he could make more power in a easy and realiable way.
I don't think the owner of a 2009 Hyundai accent purchased his 105hp car with the idea in mind that the stock power is not enough and that there are upgrades routes reliable and cheap that can make the output even greater. You buy whatever you buy from factory and you aim to get a good overall product, both the GTR and the Z06 do that..end of history.
You keep thinking the Evo owner mentality, slap a turbo, cam, exhaust, a ECU flash, injectors,fuel pump, MBC, IC pipes and you are done.. is not like that on the GTR. To do the Evo cams takes only 2 hours(eeven less) and you can get a set for $400(2 cams). The GTR and Z06 start at a much higher level, they pack much more from the factory so when you compare the Evo you see great improvements but Modding the GTR is very expensive as well.
Not everyone like to mod their cars. Not everyone think the way you think, I don't think a Buggati Veiron owner purchased his car with the idea in mind that stock is not enough and that the stock power doesn't mean rat Asswhile he could make more power in a easy and realiable way.
I don't think the owner of a 2009 Hyundai accent purchased his 105hp car with the idea in mind that the stock power is not enough and that there are upgrades routes reliable and cheap that can make the output even greater. You buy whatever you buy from factory and you aim to get a good overall product, both the GTR and the Z06 do that..end of history.
You keep thinking the Evo owner mentality, slap a turbo, cam, exhaust, a ECU flash, injectors,fuel pump, MBC, IC pipes and you are done.. is not like that on the GTR. To do the Evo cams takes only 2 hours(eeven less) and you can get a set for $400(2 cams). The GTR and Z06 start at a much higher level, they pack much more from the factory so when you compare the Evo you see great improvements but Modding the GTR is very expensive as well.
Last edited by 200+mphdude; 11-16-2008 at 03:45 PM.
11-17-2008, 05:57 AM
#48
Newbie
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 8
Everyone needs to quit comparing APPLES to ORANGES.....
Given enough cash flow, i would purchase BOTH vehicles, and take out the Chevy when i wanted to go maybe a second faster in a straight line....
They are both HOT vehicles. And deserve respect in their own ways.
GTR still #1 for me. But i'm not looking to compare the two of them, since they are not on a level playing field....
Given enough cash flow, i would purchase BOTH vehicles, and take out the Chevy when i wanted to go maybe a second faster in a straight line....
They are both HOT vehicles. And deserve respect in their own ways.
GTR still #1 for me. But i'm not looking to compare the two of them, since they are not on a level playing field....
Last edited by TheBlizzard2009; 11-17-2008 at 06:01 AM.
11-17-2008, 05:13 PM
#49
Newbie
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 5
your right about not everyone likes modding their cars. But in general domestics like yourself dont. They are happy with a plain joe blow stock car, most import buyers buy with the intention to mod.
Do you even know the history of Nissian? This GTR is another form of the old skyline which was very mod friendly and made heaps of power like the Toyota Supra and killed Most all Corvettes out there. A factory supercharged or Turbo car will always have enough in its stock parts to easily gain 100hp or more without having to upgrade any fuel injectors, fuel pumps, ect....
any NA car upgrading to forced induction will always have to upgrade injectors and or pump. show me one person who has upgraded a N/A car making at least 100hp or more without upgrading fuel pump and injectors and ECU.
As for price it is cheaper to mod the GTR than a forced injection Vette just to the fact you need less parts.
lets see most of the parts needed for a GTR.
bigger turbo
turbo back exhuast upgrade
tune
for the vette you need
Turbo or supercharger
wastegate
Recirulate Valve or Blow off Valve
injectors
fuel pump
intercooler or meth/water injection kit
exhuast
fuel pressure regulator
tune and or piggy ECU
as you can see you need a heck of a lot more parts to build up the vette.
Do you even know the history of Nissian? This GTR is another form of the old skyline which was very mod friendly and made heaps of power like the Toyota Supra and killed Most all Corvettes out there. A factory supercharged or Turbo car will always have enough in its stock parts to easily gain 100hp or more without having to upgrade any fuel injectors, fuel pumps, ect....
any NA car upgrading to forced induction will always have to upgrade injectors and or pump. show me one person who has upgraded a N/A car making at least 100hp or more without upgrading fuel pump and injectors and ECU.
As for price it is cheaper to mod the GTR than a forced injection Vette just to the fact you need less parts.
lets see most of the parts needed for a GTR.
bigger turbo
turbo back exhuast upgrade
tune
for the vette you need
Turbo or supercharger
wastegate
Recirulate Valve or Blow off Valve
injectors
fuel pump
intercooler or meth/water injection kit
exhuast
fuel pressure regulator
tune and or piggy ECU
as you can see you need a heck of a lot more parts to build up the vette.
Sure. So let see, all I have to do is buy a 1990 Honda civic base model(1.5l with 70hp) then drop a Honda H22 engine, after all the stock engine power doesn't mean a rat a$$. This way I can have a very reliable engine with minimal work(just swpp the engine and some ECU harness and what not.
Not everyone like to mod their cars. Not everyone think the way you think, I don't think a Buggati Veiron owner purchased his car with the idea in mind that stock is not enough and that the stock power doesn't mean rat Asswhile he could make more power in a easy and realiable way.
I don't think the owner of a 2009 Hyundai accent purchased his 105hp car with the idea in mind that the stock power is not enough and that there are upgrades routes reliable and cheap that can make the output even greater. You buy whatever you buy from factory and you aim to get a good overall product, both the GTR and the Z06 do that..end of history.
You keep thinking the Evo owner mentality, slap a turbo, cam, exhaust, a ECU flash, injectors,fuel pump, MBC, IC pipes and you are done.. is not like that on the GTR. To do the Evo cams takes only 2 hours(eeven less) and you can get a set for $400(2 cams). The GTR and Z06 start at a much higher level, they pack much more from the factory so when you compare the Evo you see great improvements but Modding the GTR is very expensive as well.
Not everyone like to mod their cars. Not everyone think the way you think, I don't think a Buggati Veiron owner purchased his car with the idea in mind that stock is not enough and that the stock power doesn't mean rat Asswhile he could make more power in a easy and realiable way.
I don't think the owner of a 2009 Hyundai accent purchased his 105hp car with the idea in mind that the stock power is not enough and that there are upgrades routes reliable and cheap that can make the output even greater. You buy whatever you buy from factory and you aim to get a good overall product, both the GTR and the Z06 do that..end of history.
You keep thinking the Evo owner mentality, slap a turbo, cam, exhaust, a ECU flash, injectors,fuel pump, MBC, IC pipes and you are done.. is not like that on the GTR. To do the Evo cams takes only 2 hours(eeven less) and you can get a set for $400(2 cams). The GTR and Z06 start at a much higher level, they pack much more from the factory so when you compare the Evo you see great improvements but Modding the GTR is very expensive as well.
11-17-2008, 11:57 PM
#50
GTR Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 46
your right about not everyone likes modding their cars. But in general domestics like yourself dont. They are happy with a plain joe blow stock car, most import buyers buy with the intention to mod.
Do you even know the history of Nissian? This GTR is another form of the old skyline which was very mod friendly and made heaps of power like the Toyota Supra and killed Most all Corvettes out there. A factory supercharged or Turbo car will always have enough in its stock parts to easily gain 100hp or more without having to upgrade any fuel injectors, fuel pumps, ect....
any NA car upgrading to forced induction will always have to upgrade injectors and or pump. show me one person who has upgraded a N/A car making at least 100hp or more without upgrading fuel pump and injectors and ECU.
As for price it is cheaper to mod the GTR than a forced injection Vette just to the fact you need less parts.
lets see most of the parts needed for a GTR.
bigger turbo
turbo back exhuast upgrade
tune
for the vette you need
Turbo or supercharger
wastegate
Recirulate Valve or Blow off Valve
injectors
fuel pump
intercooler or meth/water injection kit
exhuast
fuel pressure regulator
tune and or piggy ECU
as you can see you need a heck of a lot more parts to build up the vette.
Do you even know the history of Nissian? This GTR is another form of the old skyline which was very mod friendly and made heaps of power like the Toyota Supra and killed Most all Corvettes out there. A factory supercharged or Turbo car will always have enough in its stock parts to easily gain 100hp or more without having to upgrade any fuel injectors, fuel pumps, ect....
any NA car upgrading to forced induction will always have to upgrade injectors and or pump. show me one person who has upgraded a N/A car making at least 100hp or more without upgrading fuel pump and injectors and ECU.
As for price it is cheaper to mod the GTR than a forced injection Vette just to the fact you need less parts.
lets see most of the parts needed for a GTR.
bigger turbo
turbo back exhuast upgrade
tune
for the vette you need
Turbo or supercharger
wastegate
Recirulate Valve or Blow off Valve
injectors
fuel pump
intercooler or meth/water injection kit
exhuast
fuel pressure regulator
tune and or piggy ECU
as you can see you need a heck of a lot more parts to build up the vette.
In comparison vette are very easy and cheap to mod compared to most cars. I neve could figure out why so many import fans will dump thousands into a honda just to make less hp than a stock vette from the early 90s.
BTW the supra was an anomoly. The motor was very over-engineered. I doubt the GTR wll have the same massive gains with modest mods. Also rememeber that none of the high hp supras were even close to street legal with emmissions etc.