How to get a Skyline in America
09-30-2005, 02:23 PM
#21
GTR Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 64
Skyline
That's what I'm talking about though. Why go thru the trouble of importing a skyline only to not drive it. You would only be carting it around to shows and events. It's no fun, and not what a car is made for. Especially the GTR. It was made to be driven. I wouldn't drive it everywhere everyday. But on those beautiful days, when the sun is shining, and you can go out and drive with the windows down and the music up, it's perfect joy. I wouldn't go thru the trouble of importing a skyline if I wasn't going to drive it. So I can do what?, stare at it and wish it to street legalness?? And all those out there who got one here under the radar by listing it as a "kit" car, I hope they find you. I hope you are fined and go to jail. But most of all, I hope they crush your car into a small cube of metal and make you watch. Because it's people like you that make it truly difficult for the true auto enthusiasts to enjoy this car.........but, that's just my opinion..................
09-30-2005, 03:30 PM
#22
GTR Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 869
well, yes, then we are not so at odds, then, on our opinions. i would not want to drive the GT-R every day. i have a beater for that. i would want to feel the car perform on the open highway and mountain passes most definitely. else, having the car is like having a full scale die cast model.
really, this comes down to money. if you can manage at least $500/mo car payments, then there is nothing stopping anyone from buying this car. if you want an R33, then the price immediately jumps to about $700/mo; with the R34 GT-R being around $1000/mo or more --all not including insurance.
if this is within your budget, then there is no need to fret about importation laws. you just go and buy the car. a lot of people who will be candidates for the new GT-R can already buy an older skyline without any financial hardship. but it is often the younger tuner crowd, with less money, who wants the true "legend."
therefore if money is a problem, inevitably, there are those who will think of every possible loophole or trick to get around the extra expense. this has been covered on other forums probably well over a million times.
people have even cut a GT-R in half, making it a "half cut," and importing the front. then on a separate container shipment, in a different month, importing the rear part. officially, the car is salvage junk this way. then an expert welder here grafts the pieces back together: it has been done. as for me, hell no. i'd never compromise the car and my whole effort by hacking the car up. but with the hacked way, there is no need to do any such EPA, DOT, anything. it is just junk.
people have also had the car gutted overseas and had the shell imported without an engine. or anything at all. no wheels, steering column, nothing. then the parts follow later, with the entire car being reassembled here. that has been done.
that still leaves registration a problem. but believe me, there are bogus ways around that, too. and those have all been done. as we speak, there are illegal skylines driving around. not many, but they are there. it is not really that hard to do. the biggest cop magnet, probably, is the fact that the car is right hand drive. and the rear end looks different, with the "skyline" panel across the back. if you remove or cover that panel, it may lessen the impact, but the RHD still looks funny. and a cop will pull you over, especially in socal. but if you have the papers in order, then they cannot do jack ****.
even more stealthy, are the illegal engine swaps that are done here A LOT: nearly every day, someone swaps an RB or an SR into a 240SX. those engines are totally illegal here for the street. yet you will see hundreds of such cars at shows and meets all summer long with these engines.
the real reason for tight importation laws of sports cars is less about safety and compliance, and more about money: uncle sam wants a piece of the action. and he will do business and grant legality to the highest bidder, making the owner jump through flaming hoops to have their coveted "skyline" or treasured rarity. you have to pay to play. or you go down really hard.
really, this comes down to money. if you can manage at least $500/mo car payments, then there is nothing stopping anyone from buying this car. if you want an R33, then the price immediately jumps to about $700/mo; with the R34 GT-R being around $1000/mo or more --all not including insurance.
if this is within your budget, then there is no need to fret about importation laws. you just go and buy the car. a lot of people who will be candidates for the new GT-R can already buy an older skyline without any financial hardship. but it is often the younger tuner crowd, with less money, who wants the true "legend."
therefore if money is a problem, inevitably, there are those who will think of every possible loophole or trick to get around the extra expense. this has been covered on other forums probably well over a million times.
people have even cut a GT-R in half, making it a "half cut," and importing the front. then on a separate container shipment, in a different month, importing the rear part. officially, the car is salvage junk this way. then an expert welder here grafts the pieces back together: it has been done. as for me, hell no. i'd never compromise the car and my whole effort by hacking the car up. but with the hacked way, there is no need to do any such EPA, DOT, anything. it is just junk.
people have also had the car gutted overseas and had the shell imported without an engine. or anything at all. no wheels, steering column, nothing. then the parts follow later, with the entire car being reassembled here. that has been done.
that still leaves registration a problem. but believe me, there are bogus ways around that, too. and those have all been done. as we speak, there are illegal skylines driving around. not many, but they are there. it is not really that hard to do. the biggest cop magnet, probably, is the fact that the car is right hand drive. and the rear end looks different, with the "skyline" panel across the back. if you remove or cover that panel, it may lessen the impact, but the RHD still looks funny. and a cop will pull you over, especially in socal. but if you have the papers in order, then they cannot do jack ****.
even more stealthy, are the illegal engine swaps that are done here A LOT: nearly every day, someone swaps an RB or an SR into a 240SX. those engines are totally illegal here for the street. yet you will see hundreds of such cars at shows and meets all summer long with these engines.
the real reason for tight importation laws of sports cars is less about safety and compliance, and more about money: uncle sam wants a piece of the action. and he will do business and grant legality to the highest bidder, making the owner jump through flaming hoops to have their coveted "skyline" or treasured rarity. you have to pay to play. or you go down really hard.
09-30-2005, 05:35 PM
#24
GTR Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 108
Originally Posted by shadz
The RB and SR engines aren't kosher here? I was under the impression that the skylines have the RB engines in them when the are imported, and no detuning is done. Am I wrong?
No detuning is done they add about 2 cats though. They also add alot of safety stuff from japan the skyline is very unsafe unless some of these mods are done. Front windshield is replaced with safty glass. The seatbealts are modded and a few other things.
09-30-2005, 05:46 PM
#25
GTR Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 869
JDM to USDM
Originally Posted by shadz
The RB and SR engines aren't kosher here? I was under the impression that the skylines have the RB engines in them when the are imported, and no detuning is done. Am I wrong?
and no. the RB is not detuned at all. it is brought up to spec to pass with the rest of the car.
and yes, SRs as stand-alone engines are illegal. totally and completely. but there are a LOT of them out there under the hoods of S13s and S14s. more than you'd think. in that circle, if you "still only have the KA24" you are "gay."
i thought the RB as a non-certified with the car, stand-alone engine, was illegal. this is not true? the RB by itself, out of the car, is legal now?
10-01-2005, 08:32 PM
#26
GTR Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 108
Originally Posted by bonzelite
part of the certification process is to bring the whole car up to USDM spec. you have to add american turn signals, 3rd brake light, proper backup lights, airbag if applicable, USDM gauges, bumper reinforcements, and the engine must be brought up to OBD 2 spec, if i am correct.
i thought the RB as a non-certified with the car, stand-alone engine, was illegal. this is not true? the RB by itself, out of the car, is legal now?
i thought the RB as a non-certified with the car, stand-alone engine, was illegal. this is not true? the RB by itself, out of the car, is legal now?
I was looking into doing a RB powered 240 a while ago.
OBD2 is required on 96 and newer thats the problem with MotoRex they haven't done it on most of the cars. They use OBD1 it's alot cheeper and that's part of what got them in trouble.
Here some of the crash test data:
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf35/53851_web.pdf
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf42/69783_web.pdf
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf42/69794_web.pdf
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf42/69795_web.pdf
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf42/69792_web.pdf
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf42/70703_web.pdf
And NO just because you have this data dosen't mean you can take this paper work with a skyline to a DOT station and have it legalized.
10-01-2005, 08:45 PM
#27
GTR Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 869
from what i understand, too, OBD 2 is why JDM cars fail emissions. not because of the air quality, as the standards in JDM are higher than USDM. it is about newer OBD 2 test electronics incompatible with older OBD 1 wired cars.
to clarify, USDM OBD 1 cars (ie, already sold in the united states, like my 1991 VR-4, for example) are exempt. but to BRING OVER an older non OBD 2 car, the EPA and DOT require it to comply with CURRENT law. so you have to reverse engineer. and this costs $$$.
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so then what happens if you just buy an RB engine from a JDM supplier? and it has nothing to do with MotoRex?
by the way, thanks for those govt docs. neato!
to clarify, USDM OBD 1 cars (ie, already sold in the united states, like my 1991 VR-4, for example) are exempt. but to BRING OVER an older non OBD 2 car, the EPA and DOT require it to comply with CURRENT law. so you have to reverse engineer. and this costs $$$.
----------------
so then what happens if you just buy an RB engine from a JDM supplier? and it has nothing to do with MotoRex?
by the way, thanks for those govt docs. neato!
Last edited by bonzelite; 10-01-2005 at 08:48 PM.
10-01-2005, 09:19 PM
#29
GTR Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 869
legality versus money
[QUOTE=Real GTR]
then if that is true, i am further convinced that the entire importation process to comply vehicles is just a money racket. look at who swaps in the SR20DET: usually (not always) people between 18 and 30, male consumers = slammed hot cars = cop magnets = state revenue = money.
why do they let the RB in, then? --because nobody drifts with the RB. or very very few do that setup. and that same crowd who goes for the illegal and sought-after SR are all typically drifters.
so why, then, is the entire car with the RB, the Skyline, ILLEGAL? for safety? i doubt it. that is the pretext to collect import tariffs in the guise of the EPA and DOT, and myriad other government agenices involved:
were it REALLY for safety and compliance, then they would have every non OBD 2 car ALREADY in the USDM recalled and brought up to OBD 2 spec no matter what, no excuses. but they don't do that. moreover, they'd have all such older domestic cars require current airbag and impact retrofitting, too, just like how they require of the R-series GT-Rs. but are they doing that? nope.
do they require your 1981 honda have airbags and side impact door bars when you go to the DMV for registration? or a 3rd brake light? that it comply with OBD 2? nope. all they do is make your older car comply with smog, because that is a racket. and they require little by little that even OLDER cars comply. it is the same thing as issuing tickets: it is a means of taxation without calling it that. and it can be under the guise of environmental responsibility. anything more would be an obvious ploy.
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for a legal SR setup, you could get a G20 Infinity, with FWD setup SR20DE (n/a), swap it out, get a Silvia tranny, and turbo the engine, then drop it in a 240SX. and it'd be technically legal, as the engine originated as a USDM product. about 2 summers ago, Sport Compact Car ran an article about turboing the G20. i have the issue and can find the volume and month of it.
Originally Posted by bonzelite
so then what happens if you just buy an RB engine from a JDM supplier? and it has nothing to do with MotoRex?
QUOTE]
It's street legal as long as it a RB25 or RB26. From what i was told.
QUOTE]
It's street legal as long as it a RB25 or RB26. From what i was told.
why do they let the RB in, then? --because nobody drifts with the RB. or very very few do that setup. and that same crowd who goes for the illegal and sought-after SR are all typically drifters.
so why, then, is the entire car with the RB, the Skyline, ILLEGAL? for safety? i doubt it. that is the pretext to collect import tariffs in the guise of the EPA and DOT, and myriad other government agenices involved:
were it REALLY for safety and compliance, then they would have every non OBD 2 car ALREADY in the USDM recalled and brought up to OBD 2 spec no matter what, no excuses. but they don't do that. moreover, they'd have all such older domestic cars require current airbag and impact retrofitting, too, just like how they require of the R-series GT-Rs. but are they doing that? nope.
do they require your 1981 honda have airbags and side impact door bars when you go to the DMV for registration? or a 3rd brake light? that it comply with OBD 2? nope. all they do is make your older car comply with smog, because that is a racket. and they require little by little that even OLDER cars comply. it is the same thing as issuing tickets: it is a means of taxation without calling it that. and it can be under the guise of environmental responsibility. anything more would be an obvious ploy.
------------------------
for a legal SR setup, you could get a G20 Infinity, with FWD setup SR20DE (n/a), swap it out, get a Silvia tranny, and turbo the engine, then drop it in a 240SX. and it'd be technically legal, as the engine originated as a USDM product. about 2 summers ago, Sport Compact Car ran an article about turboing the G20. i have the issue and can find the volume and month of it.
10-03-2005, 08:42 PM
#30
GTR Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 108
I can't say it's a racket. If money were really an issue with them they'd crack down on all the illegal cars not just skylines, the'd really go after people that had been ducking the IRS on back taxes. They made the rules for some reason.
I do know there are some major saftey concerns with the GT-R. I also know the do add 2 big door bars inside each door on every GT-R legalized by motorex.
I cant answer why the goverment let's something fly and on other things there azz about. I've learned to accept it and when in doubt vote change the laws, call your state reps voice your opnion dealing with the goverment isn't easy or always fair. But things can be change with hard work.
I've never looked into the G20 I'll make some calls and if that'll work looks like i have anothe project to do.
I do know there are some major saftey concerns with the GT-R. I also know the do add 2 big door bars inside each door on every GT-R legalized by motorex.
I cant answer why the goverment let's something fly and on other things there azz about. I've learned to accept it and when in doubt vote change the laws, call your state reps voice your opnion dealing with the goverment isn't easy or always fair. But things can be change with hard work.
I've never looked into the G20 I'll make some calls and if that'll work looks like i have anothe project to do.