evo2envy

thanks for the update, this just made my day. i can't wait for it to get here.

bonzelite

i understand, somewhat, your purist take on it, but there are many reasons for the changeover. economic and marketing conditions largely dictate everything, particularly the launch of a new worldwide supercar. as said, the RB platform no longer makes any sense in this new context: it is bad on gas, and is not cost-effective for the factory or the consumer.

the VQ is has become the poster-child of nissan performance and cost-effectiveness, as it is adaptable across many product lines within the nissan family. it can be used in AWD, RWD, and FWD platforms. the RB cannot.

insofar as the skyline name itself, it is not to be used in north america anyway, as that name has no market identity or effectiveness here. image and perception and consumer identity is, for better or worse, of more importance than the car itself is. at least it trumps the "skyline" name. bear in mind that the largest market for this car is america. and this is largely why the american-identified "infinity" monkier is the one that the GT-R will carry.

personally, i think "infinity" is gay, as i prefer "skyline." but as long as we all know what it really is, then i suppose we can tolerate it. of note, too, many overseas markets are chomping at the bit, as it were, to have an "infinity." if you browse other skyline sites, you will begin to see that the aussies, kiwis, and even the japanese find uniqueness and prestige, and desire, for the "infinity" line of cars. to them, it is evocative and has a certain mystique. and this is why nissan is marketing the infinity line worldwide -finally. they understand it's allure, even though it is just nissan.

and the infinity GT-R is the perfect trojan horse for worldwide infinity hype: if the GT-R is an "infinity," then the other infinity cars must be utterly amazing, too, by mere association. and i can't live without one. and i must go buy one. and i will buy one every year from every corner of the world and so on...

follow the money.

Rezz

Do US enthusiasts realize that 'Infiniti' was introduced to the Australian market with the Q45 back in 1990 and due to poor brand recognition and the dreaded "it's just an expensive Nissan" complaint the brand was dropped?

In fact, it might be better if Nissan market the next GT-R in Japan/AU/NZ as a 'Nissan', such is the strength of the Skyline GT-R as a model in those countries.

But as is mentioned above, to market the GT-R as an Infiniti would be best on a worldwide scale, as a 'one-name-fits-all' arrangement, and not least to underline the fact that the next GT-R has evolved into a car greater than it's predecessors. Hard to believe but thats what they're doing.

bonzelite

that is a good point.

as well, back in '90, Infiniti was nearly a failure in america due to poor brand id. but that was back when the brand first appeared. it was marketed very vaguely for american tastes, and did not connect well with the consumers. however, today, that is not the case. it has staked a claim for itself, and is now sought.

i think, too, nissan is primarily aiming for the huge american market, despite the familiarity of the Nissan Skyline GT-R in australia and new zealand. but it is a perfect opportunity to introduce the Infinity line of cars to other markets, essentially, a 'new all over again' sort of car. nissan will eventually lull newer and newer consumers into expecting "Infiniti." eventually, there will come a time when a consumer is born into a world already full of the infiniti name, never knowing a time when it was not available.

Rezz

I was more thinking that Nissan *can't* sell the next GT-R as a Nissan OR Skyline... because a) as you say, the Skyline name isn't recognised in the US (main market for Infiniti) and b) a $80,000 'Nissan' would never float in this day and age...

Remember that the original 'modern' GT-R, the BNR32, was sold at a loss at 5,000,000 yen when the cost to produce one was 12,000,000 yen... but that was back in the good 'ol days (or bad ol days depending on which way you look at it) when Nissan was striving for motosports dominance around the world, and they were prepared to make a loss on the 'Skyline GT-R' to increase brand awareness.

The upside of all that is now there are 15 years old kids around the world who've never even seen (let alone driven) a GT-R yet they know what one is... as if Nissan somehow *purchased* a new generation fan base.

Yeah, I'm a bit sad that Nissan has cut links with Skyline and even the Nissan name... but I don't think it all has to do with the mighty American market. Just remember 2 things:

- The GT-R existed on and off for almost 30 years without the US market knowing...

- The diehard GT-R enthusiasts in Nissans most important market in the world - Japan - are turning away from Nissan in droves as a kind of 'boycott' of sorts. The V35 Skyline has nowhere near the positive image that the Fairlady Z has, despite being called a Skyline and despite being a very similar car underneath.

spt

I haven't see the details on it yet. Rezz have you seen anything that explains this a little more?

bonzelite

this is an excellent dialogue.

yes. and yes. and yes.

as well, as i restate myself, i feel that Nissan has it's sights to re-establish itself "all over again," per se, by using the newest version of the GT-R as a means to this. it is true that north america is not "it." there is a whole world out there.

i do think that nissan is aiming for consumers 1)who have a higher income, thus "infiniti." and 2)people who appreciate performance, but do not go "ga ga" hardcore apesh!t over it. for example, you and i, and perhaps a vast majority of Skyline fans, are gnarly for that car, elevating it to a religion: the R34 is a legend, a myth, and an icon of worship. and we "get it."

the crowd driving the more posh 500 series mercedes or what not --enthusiasts? well, yes. they can be. but they also like "posh." i think this, too, is why the entire Infinity concept has met the success that it has. and nissan wants to attach it to the Skyline. so they make a Skyline without really acknowledging it --blasphemy to you and i, perhaps, and many purists in the land of the rising sun; almost worthy of a boycott.

i think it is a bit tragic that the Skyline heritage is being somewhat ignored by the very act of using "Infiniti." i don't really like that. but i am willing to guess that the new legions of consumers that will happen across this new GT-R will not really know much about it's roots or heritage, and, likewise, will not really care. some may find it mildly interesting, but a good many will just buy it on it's own merits.

i seriously believe, too, that MOST people in north america who currently buy the "G35 Infinity coupe" have not the foggiest idea that it is really the "Skyline" everywhere else. and these same people, many who will "upgrade" to the new GT-R, will likewise be equally as clueless and aloof and unaware of "Skyline." many sales personnel have no idea what a Skyline is. i've seen it in action.

Rezz

Yep, thats the problem all Skyline/GT-R enthusists have with this 'dislocation' of the GT-R from the Skyline range.

It's been said at www.skylinesaustralia.com and www.gtr.co.uk etc that their happy that the V35 Skyline/Infiniti G35 isn't a straight 6 and isn't easily identifyable as a Skyline etc etc because in their eyes Nissan screwed up with the lineage. It's a revolution (in a not so positive way) as opposed to an evolution of the model line. Now there are sound economic and environmental reasons for this, but too many people just flat out can't stand the V35.

So the enthusiasts don't like the current Skyline - most anyway - and the people that buy the V35 on the most part aren't aware of any Skyline links... so why is it like this???

Answer: Ask any Nissan employee in Japan (I have!) and they'll tell you that nothings changed. Yes, they'll smugly say without batting an eyelid "this is the current Skyline sir, isn't she a beauty?" Business goes on, and our man Carlos Ghosn knows whats best for Nissan. Have a look at the 'Feel the Skyline' sub-site at www.nissan.co.jp and see what the V35 owners have to say... they love it!!! It's like an European car made in Japan... brilliant. These are the same people that upgraded from a Nissan March

So yes, I echo the statement that current V35 buyers haven't got a clue, and it'll remain like this indefinitely. Hence why R34 GT-R prices are GOING UP... not to mention the S15 Silvia/180SX holding their value too.

DEFINITELY the end of an era (for those old enough to remember the good times).

bonzelite

yes again. i second the motion.

change is inevitable. so the cliche' goes. "the only constant thing is change." we can get very zen about it.

but the fact remains the lineage has this wrinkle in it. and, really, it is ok. the KPGC110 Skyline looks vastly different from the R31, has quite different mechanical design, for example. yet the cars carry over styling heritage from generation to generation. i think the upcoming Infinity GT-R will carry the heritage through. i really do. i am optimisitic.

despite the downside of a largely culturally vacant and clueless target market, the real historians and fans of the GT-R will understand the reality of the situation with a deeper experience and sense of connection. and i think the new GT-R, and subsequent Skylines, will be pretty cool machines. i already like the G35. particularly the coupe --that is a very elegant and understated design statement, in good taste, one of the better looking cars on the road now.

but my favorite will always be the R32. i think nissan really nailed it with that car. it is just magical.

Paul2x

Sound's yummie...

still holding on to my "zilla' no matter what.