grantg

Here's an interesting article on the subject:
http://www.speedsportlife.com/2008/1...itter-porsche/

Attaus

Were this car to be a fully manual car -- no computers, paddle shifter, 'turbo spooling' computer mechanism, etc -- I would agree that a better driver could get a closer time. But 20 seconds?

However, the GTR is as computer controlled as it gets. I joke that my grandma could drive this car around the ring in less than 8 minutes, but the sad part is she could. It's a point and shoot car. There are so many different types of computer aid that it is very hard to get into trouble.

So when I hear that Porsche could not come within 20 seconds of Nissan's time, a little red flag went off in my head. And.. of course Nissan comes back with the childish response of "maybe you need better drivers." To Porsche. Like I said.. anyone is supposed to be able to drive this car well. If a very well qualified driver from Porsche cannot come close to the posted time, what makes you think the average driver will?

I loved the R32, R33, and R34. I saw a GTR before most people even saw pictures of one, and I really liked it. I thought the idea of a GT style Skyline would be cool, considering it still has that heavenly exhaust noise. Then I learned of allll the problems it has, and how Nissan is quickly turning this into a whole big scam.

Yes, other manufacturers put limits on their cars. Yes, they check for abuse. Turning off traction control is not abuse. That's using the car for what it was designed for. And.. it can't take it? That means you have a car that does 0-60 in the mid 4's, not 3's. It will do the 1/4 mile in 12's-13's.. not 10's-11's. It also tops out at 90mph.

I'm not sure if everyone here is aware, but Nissan makes you sign a clause saying that you will "not complain about transmission or brake noise". That scares me a little. Don't give me the "it's race material" bull. I've been around race material. I don't want a clunky transmission in a GT car.

So.. by all means, buy a GTR. It's not bad looking at all, and it sounds good. But when you start running into problems.. and pay $80 a quart (all 10!) for transmission fluid (which, by the way, needs to be replaced often for that fancy transmission) don't complain to me. I'll be blowing by you in my Z06, because unlike the GTR, flooring it doesn't void my warranty.

MagicMtnDan

Not sure if this was posted on this thread...

The video clearly shows Nissan's chief test driver Tochio Suzuki making the 7-minute, 29-second lap, and the Japanese automaker has even offered images of the actual tires used in the test.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=133467

MagicMtnDan

One more...

This one from Edmunds.com: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=133406


TOKYO — Nissan has officially refuted suggestions that cheating might have been involved during its testing of the 2009 Nissan GT-R at the Nürburgring Nordschleife this year. The carefully worded document from Tokyo responds to rumors that Porsche was unable to duplicate the GT-R's 7:29 effort in its own testing of a car this summer.

The Nissan release notes that the GT-R set what was then a new lap record for production sports cars of 7:29 on April 17, 2008, during customary performance and durability testing. The car met production specifications in every way, had been equipped with production-specification Dunlop SP Sport 600 DSST CTT tires and had been driven by professional racing driver Toshio Suzuki. The car carried 110 pounds of data and video recording equipment. An official announcement was made in June.

Nissan notes that the test was observed by Best Motoring, a leading Japanese car magazine, and was conducted according to the Nürburgring test protocol for lap times established by Sport Auto, a leading German magazine. Nissan further says that it still has the tires used for the test.

The company says it's aware that other automakers have purchased examples of the GT-R for evaluation. It notes, "Like all GT-R customers, we recommend than any automaker buying a GT-R follow the recommended run-in procedures, service schedules and maintenance to ensure the maximum performance from the car. In addition, we offer performance driving courses for prospective and current GT-R owners to help them get the best performance from their car. We would welcome the opportunity to help any manufacturer with understanding the full capabilities of the GT-R."

Apparently this whole saga began last May, when a member of Porsche's Nürburgring development team was overheard at a social establishment near the track rather loudly expressing his skepticism of the GT-R's ability to surpass the Porsche 911 Turbo's speed at the Nordschleife. Just a few weeks ago under similar circumstances in Verona, Italy, for the introduction of the Porsche 911 Targa, the same person repeated his thoughts in the company of members of the Australian press.

Our sources have since learned that Porsche purchased a GT-R in America soon after the car's official introduction and quickly air-freighted it to Germany ($40,000 is usually the tab for such an exercise). Some time later, members of the Porsche crew at the Nürburgring brought the car to the Nissan development shop near the track and explained that they seemed to be having a little trouble with it. Kazutosi Mizuno, chief vehicle engineer and chief product specialist for the GT-R, happened to be there and — since all the Nürburgring development teams for various manufacturers are really one big family of friendly rivals — happily agreed to help them.

Porsche's GT-R had something over 3,000 miles on the odometer. Its tires were in tatters. The brakes were terminally toasted. None of the fluids had been changed. Mizuno inquired whether the transmission had been recalibrated following the recommended 1,200-mile break-in procedure as specified in the owner's manual. It had not. Mizuno provided new tires and new brakes, changed the fluids and recalibrated the transmission. And then he carefully explained the driving techniques that are required to help the GT-R do its best (as a former race engineer in charge of Nissan's effort at the 24 Hours of Le Mans, he knows his stuff) and sent them on their way.

It seems Porsche was no more successful afterward, and now the testing season at the Nordschleife has concluded as winter weather approaches. Our Nissan sources tell us that the whole episode is highly humorous, especially as Porsche declines to describe its own testing protocol for Nordschleife laps. When spring arrives, we'll see if there are any mysterious German students in Nissan's performance driving schools for GT-R owners.

Attaus

What good does showing a picture of used tires help? I could run my Z down the drag strip with slicks, post up a time slip, and then post a picture of the tires I use daily. That doesn't mean I used the daily's for the strip.

I simply don't understand why Nissan doesn't offer to do another run. This was a while ago that Porsche questioned the times. It seems that they could just do another run and prove everyone wrong.. but they wouldn't.

Catapult5

There is no reason for nissan to have to prove its worth again, no other car has every had to do it, they have nothing to gain from it. Porsche just needs to stop whining and better their own cars.

NissanR35

If you know how to read Germany which is in Europe btw is farther north than the US is so there are very cold conditions held at the ring so there would be no way to get the 7:29 lap time achieved. There is a good chance the track is even closed. Tread wears differently if you drive on a track for a few laps compared to doing a few burnouts and drive down a 1/4 mile straight line.

Briik

I'm sorry but Porsche says "The GT-R could only do this with race-style tyres" and then they admit that they put Cup tyres on their cars for the 'ring run and left the GT-R with the stock tyres! If you buy a 911Turbo it does NOT come with Cup tyres. WTF Porsche, just because your execs need to sleep with prostitutes to feet adequite doesnt mean your company should feel challenged by younger studs too!

P.S. the GT2 is a great car, but is also a bit out of the comparison range. The GT2 shoudl be concerned with the Fcars.

911Turbo stock tires: Pirelli P Zero
What Porsche gave its test 911: Michelin Sport Cup

GT-R performance tiresunlop SP600
GT-R normal tires (Porsche's test car's): Bridgestone Potenza RE070R RFT

Nissan has recommended the Dunlops for performance driving and has made them avaliable for purchase by existing owners.

TheBlizzard2009

This Porsche vs. GT-R topic should be labeled "Mines bigger than Yours".

Every time they test, different drivers or not, different results are going to occur.

I say they wait until the planets are aligned, as this unlocks 1000hp

Attaus

Yes, I know, I've been there. Have you? You seem to be so well versed in geography.

I also know of someone who was just at the 'Ring, and guess what.. they were open. It was also sunny.


All I hear is a bunch of *****ing about how they shouldn't have to prove it. Umm.. yeah, they should. A car with specs matching the time shouldn't have to, no, but if you think that such a controversial car can get away with just 1 posted run you're fooling yourself.

If Nissan just kept their damn mouths shut about it, and didn't flaunt it as the best car ever, then we wouldn't have this problem. But now they are acting like a bunch of little kids, suggesting that Porsche needs to "learn how to drive." Not one single manufacturer would suggest that, as it is ludicrous. Different styles of street tires don't make a 20 second difference. Race tires do.

I'm just fed up with Nissan. I like the GTR, albeit I wish it was manual, but I can't fault it. It's a nice touring car. It's not, however, what Nissan makes it out to be, and that's what it is so frustrating.