GTR versus Z06
 

I am also a member of the corvetteforum.com. There is a huge thread GTR lovers may want to look at over there under C6Z06 subdivision. Sounds as if many people there are not worried about the GTR as competition at all, dismiss it prematurely, and conclude that it will be a mediocre and "thrown together" car. There is quite a bit of heated discussion over there, and I have been apart of it. I am interested to know educated opinions here on this subject. Please be realistic!

:D

i have a hot news flash for corvetteforums:

a 5 year R&D program, rumoured to have an international team of engineers assembled, is not a thrown-together car.

next point: the GT-R ethos is to be a race car first and foremost, as it is homologated for street use for this very purpose to comply with regional and international sanctioning requirements for GT racing.

next point: the memories of many are evidently very short as only 3 years ago Nissan reissued the R34 in a limited edition road-going form called the Z-Tune. do you know what that car did? it became the fastest production car built at the time, destroying McLaren F1.

what do you think the Z-Tune was built to prove? it was created to foreshadow what direction the next generation of GT-R would take. why would Nissan R&D the GT-R for as long as they have to not beat the old-news Z06 benchmarks? or worse, "barely hang" with Porsche? such an ethos is not whatsoever what the GT-R is about --the GT-R is about domination and total victory to the extent of overkill.

next point: Corvette is a relative newcomer to international motorsports compared to Nissan and definitely compared to Porsche. why would Nissan overlook Corvette and only focus on Porsche, particularly when Corvette has been beating Porsche? the fact is that Nissan cannot be taken out to the cleaners by ---> an "American" car. that would be a total and absolute failure of mission for the GT-R ----- to beat Porsche but lose to a Corvette! the symbolic consequences of Corvette dominating the GT-R would be tantamount to death for Nissan's image and reputation on the world stage.

realistic is that the GT-R will outperform not only Porsche 997tt and Z06, but as well beat Porsche GT3 and possibly Carrera GT. the GT-R is an exotic-level performance car and is engineered for the long-haul warfare that is being fought as we speak in the new-era-reanaissance of horsepower and performance battles.

Hey Bonzelite---about 80% of what you just said is EXACTLY what I have been stating over on the Corvetteforum. I totally agree that Nissan would not have delayed introduction, or for that part even built the new GTR , to be "just faster than the Porsche".

For the most part they keep talking about the how "heavy" the car looked at Laguna and how the tires were "continually squeaking" and losing traction, and that it must be ill handling since the tires were changed multiple times, and that it is ugly and doesn't at all look "agile", and that AWD is nothing but a disadvantage and unnecessary weight.

Nissan has nearly a year until the release in the U.S. and are only showing us what they WANT us to see. I truly believe they are sandbagging, and it seems to be swallowed hook line and sinker by most of those non-Nissan loving observers.

Like I said, I could have easily bought a new Z-06 many times over, but wanted to wait for something better, which I truly believe it will be. I hope we are not all disappointed with the long wait we have had, and I don't believe it will happen.

:D

well the thing is that (as i did read every page of that thread on corvetteforums.com) there is largely a huge knowledge gap between the typical redneck corvette fan and the world of import tuning. yet many import tuners know fully about the LS1, LS2, LS6, etc... as those engines are also used in Holdens. so that is A#1 working against most of the members of that board, they are simply unaware of other makes of cars because they have chosen to remain in their "bubble of pride" over largely one make of car from one manufacturer. they may know about mustangs and a bit about mopar, but overall i have the impression that corvetteforums is largely for the mullet crowd. this is rather embarrassing for me to an extent as the corvette has risen to world-class status, with it's fanbase largely stuck in pre-civil rights alabama. so that is a big factor.

another factor against them is that simply history (which they are even less aware of) is casting a long shadow over other makes of GT-class cars going back to Bathurst in 1989 and in the subsequent Group A and Group N years that immediately followed. even before that, the 1969, 70, 71 2000GT-R KPGC10 dominated Japanese Gran Prix as well as others, namely defeating the favoured Porsche. nowhere on that thread is this ever mentioned.

adding to this, the culture and engineering ethos behind first the Prince Skyline and then the Nissan GT-R has always been to create a formidable force in a very (seemingly) "benign" package, hence, the GT-R has traditionally been based upon a sedan geometry, much to the shock of Porsche which has always been a purpose-built coupe "true" sports car. take that point very seriously when contemplating the heritage and philosophy of the GT-R culture. the very aggressive and brutal elegance of a GT-R exactly derives from it's heritage as a sedan, and this design perspective has been maintained even as the GT-R is now built as a coupe-only GT performer. the heritage of the sedan-esque stance and presence is maintained in the GT-R's continuing transformations --very much setting it apart yet again from the Porsche or Corvette "true sports car" look. yet the GT-R has taught and will continue to teach these true-sports-cars very profound lessons.

none of what i have stated here is considered or remotely imagined on corvetteforums. and it is only to the detriment of it's members, remaining judgmental over something they know little about.

i posted this on corvetteforum.com:

"i've read the whole thread thus far.

some members are actually balanced in their views about the Z06 v GT-R issue, with some actual owners of GT-Rs (and other AWD GT-type cars) providing rebuttals; however, many members posting in this thread act (apparently) unaware of other cars outside of the mindset of: "USA Corvette Pride #1". to the latter members, it must be indicated that there are other cars that exist by other manufacturers.

yes absolutely, the Z06 has risen to be taken seriously as a relevant world-contender, and as such merits great pride and admiration. it is a serious killing machine. but the Corvette is not the only car that exists. a time in the sun exists for other cars, and the Corvette will encounter this on it's way to compete another day.

design and engineering ethos and techniques across manufacturers differs; a RWD pushrod V8, with a glass fiber body, is not the only technology that exists to great effectiveness. to other members curious about the history of another make of car, please refer to Group A and Group N racing at Bathurst and the Nurburgring during the reign of Godzilla, ie, the R32 GT-R. please refer to Japanese Gran Prix history of mid to late 1960s and 70s involving the 2000GT-R KPGC10, and the Prince Skyline S50. please refer to the Z-Tune R34 GT-R. i invite members to research ATTESA-ETS Pro and HICAS and the S20 and RB26 inline-6 engines and their historical significance. i have given key titles and words to goggle away for those fellow motorsport enthusiasts who love performance cars wishing to expand their knowledge base.

the GT-R is among the most revered and formidable icons of international automotive motorsport. it's history and culture are very compelling as well as foretelling. and any new iteration of a GT-R will provide the necessary continuance of this philosophy, much to the shock of the naysayers that have either a very short memory or are without prior knowledge. please, to those that are car nuts, research the GT-R a bit more, using the prior key words i have provided.

as for me, i drive a 2006 Pontiac GTO and am a member of the local Tri-Valley GTO Club. so i am very much a fan of American Muscle, the LS2, and love performance cars in general, regardless of make. i have great respect for Corvette, as that car has grown on me a great deal, and have nothing much bad to say about the car despite it's obvious (if not endearing) shortcomings.

obviously we all love performance cars. let us share in that and learn about the competition. after all, competition is what raises the bar in any auto manufacturer's engineering approaches. competitive edge has been a godsend to the Corvette program as it has risen right to the top. so a take a while to look into how it may as well be soon eclipsed... "

Bonze---you even joined the Corvetteforum to post rebuttals and information! I am impressed. Keep up the good work.

:smilie_th

thanks, Blue. but wow i've never quite seen such close-mindedness and ignorance about cars on any forum before as i've seen on corvetteforums --man! it's nearly unbelievable! are those people for real? the IQ levels over there are able to be counted on one hand. holy bejeezus.

they act as if no other car is better than the corvette. or can possibly be. or even exists!

HAHA if you two are done stroking each other maybe you can look at some of the facts, the GTR, although still not out yet, is barely keeping up with the 997 turbo at test tracks in the states. It's AWD and will weigh over 3300 lbs. You mention a Ztune car???? Comon that's a tuner car, how about we take a Lingentfelter corvette and test it at the Ring or a RUF porsche and test that as well.

YOU HAVE LOST YOUR FREAKING MIND IF YOU THINK THIS CAR WILL KEEP UP WITH THE CARERRA GT.

OK, back to your regularly schedule dillusions.

A scholar from Georgia huh? Try remedial spelling 101 Einstein(you again amaze me with your proficiency, and thus can't be taken seriously). You as always are quite sure about details not released yet. Is Ghosn your neighbor? My car has been to Lingenfelter, and they are fantastic, but a Z-tune R34 would eat it for lunch at the Ring. I dont believe Lingenfelter has ever been there? The Carerra GT runs about a 7:28 to 7:30 I believe at the ring, not at all unbeatable for a tuner car.

:D

the Z-Tune is the benchmark by which subsequent GT-Rs are to be measured against. as well, the GT-R has been available in model variants and will be again. Nissan production factory variants will feature differing levels of trim and tune, more than likely resembling past iterations of the S-Tune, R-Tune, N-Spec Nur, V-Spec, etc.... as such, the Nissan GT-R is not being designed to "barely keep up" with the 997tt. it is being designed to slaughter it to death.

as well, a 5 year R&D schedule for Nissan's GT-R is not such that it was done merely to only "barely hang" with an older and technologically simpler Z06, that which is beating Porsche. therefore, both Porsche and Z06 are slated for slaughter. the level at which the GT-R may very well perform is a Nurburgring sub 7:40, more than likely mid to low 7:30s in some factory trim level. as stated by Nissan, the GT-R's R&D is more intensively regarding Nurburgring lap times and overall performance in a GT package as opposed to all-out brute power as is seen in the true-sports-car idiom of the Z06.

Nissan would not put it's reputation and investments on the line for a 5 year rollout development regimen of it's iconic halo GT-R --only to remain beaten by Porsche or just "barely hang with" other such cars of that performance level, ie, Z06, Aston Martin, Ferrari, Pagani Zonda, others. such an ethos is antithetical to Nissan tuning and GT-R dominance that is a hallmark of that icon.

LOL, Whey howe tor goy int thare (there you go continue to make fun of my spelling as if your ignorance on the subject will be made to no effect)

There is no way this car will run mid to low 7:30's, maybe the Z-tune version, and if lingenfelter did make a complete car for the ring I would put my money on it anyday over a Z-tune. It's funny how there were only two guys in here making out, where is all the support for your claims?????

In stock trim this car (unless equiped with Michelin Sport Cups) wont even break into the 1:40's. Will be closer to 1:45. I dont know what you guys are smoking in here but it sure helps you to spell good and make no sense.

you mean 7:30s. not 1:30s. Nurburgring times are around 8:00 or less, thereabouts.

what we're trying to tell you is that the GT-R has been available in the past as model variants, similar in scale as what Porsche offers; this will happen again. the top-shelf GT-R will more than likely fully eclipse the 997tt, more than likely the GT3, and probably nearing a Carrera GT level of performance --probably.

is it proven that any of this will come to bear? no.

is it all a "sure thing?" no!

but based upon what i know about the GT-R, it's history, Nissan's philosophy and culture, the intent behind the concept, what they have done recently, it's damn near highly probable! more than you think!

To answer that question. Why should 500 people post the same thing that one person has posted oh so well. Do you think that Bonze got the title "GTR Forums Guru" because he likes Hyundai's? I mean come on. How much clearer does it need to be for you? The GTR has a fantastic and awesome history. With all my heart, I don't believe Nissan has it in them to build a "mediocre" (careful there, that's a big word) GTR. It would seriously damage their reputation, among other things. And unlike some other forums, this isn't a place to pick a fight, so stop trying. Just because a bunch of people don't post in this thread touting how good they thing the GTR is or is going to be, doesn't mean we don't care. The Nissan Skyline/GTR has had a silent following for years. Do not mistake that silence for stupidity. You will sorely regret it, to be sure. Have a nice day! :smilie_th

First of all HEAVY, Lingenfelter was a a drag racer par excellence and tragically died doing such, not a road or circuit racer, so as much as I revere him I would never assume they would build a better Ring car than Nismo. The best bet for a fast circuit Vette would most likely be someone like Katech with their C5 and C6R experience. You make alot of assumptions here, especially with times, and none of them are logical.

As a Vette owner and future GTR owner I am very excited to see what the future holds. I will second or third what is said above and say that ALL of us on this forum will be severely disappointed if the GTR doesn't perform---but most of us have substantiated history to think it will. Fast and cool cars are fascinating---total brand allegiance is just plain ignorant and closed minded. People on this forum, as you will find, are widely knowledgeable about cars other than Nissan, and like myself enjoy owning and driving other brands of cars such as LS based cars very much.

"Ricers" simply won't be able to buy this car, just as a majority of people including myself would not be able to buy the Blue Devil/SS even if we wanted to(unless you have a broker and are like Jay Leno). The GTR is an attainable supercar, and is different and definitely not common----very cool idea in itself.

:D

E-threats, nice...:smilieth

I dont doubt the history of the GT-R and if you study your history books so well, you'll know that the GT-R is only revered to a higher level here because they have (until recently) been so hard to obtain. Let anyone who lives in the east tell you, that GT-R's are common place and, though great performers, are no magic car, especially by todays standards. I guess in all your studies in your GT-R history books you attain the ability to look past the obvious:

-The car will be heavy
-The car will be AWD
-The car will be underpowered (by todays standards)
-I know you've seen the videos of the GT-R losing to the 997 turbo at Infineon raceway and barely besting it at another, how do you think the car will go from barely hanging with the 997 turbo to beating the Z06 and nearing the Carrera GT, I'm positive there are no carrera gt's in your history books


There is a reason Nissan officials target the 997 turbo, because it's the only top of the line porsche that the GT-R even has a chance of beating. GT3 (NO!) GT2 (double no!!!) Carrera GT (have you lost your mind???). The fact of the matter is that Japan has gotten left behind by their self imposed horsepower regulations and it takes a hell of a lot more to be top dog in these times than it did before. you cant ignore that no matter what history book you are reading.

I'm glad you guys love your car and brand, nothing wrong with that but you have to look at the facts as well, the GT-R will be a great car, no doubt, but top dog is out of reach (by far) for this one.

You are probably right in fact I would take LGM, or MTI racing to build a great road race car although I am led to beleive that with lingenfelter's level of expertise that they could make a car that would destroy circuits.

I am not brand loyal, dont judge me by my name, I love all types of cars and I get bashed on any site for keeping it real. I have been called a porschephile on corvette forums and a vette fanboy on 6speedonline. I am completely realistic when I speak and have no bias towards any brand make or model, just happen to go agaisnt the grain most of the time.

Well this thread has certainly got spun up well.

Bonzelite had many good points about enjoying all cars. They are each different, with each having its own endearing qualities. To be brand loyal to a single make or car, whether Chevy or Nissan, is your choice, but it merely makes you apear a novice when dicussing motorsports.

I've had the privledge of owning both an Skyline R32 GTR and C5 Z51, and have tracked both of them. Each was imensely enjoyable and thrilling to drive, but in decidedly different ways. Each was stock, so the C5 had more power and was a sexy machine and had much more content than my older R32 GTR. However, the GTR felt more nimble and was a joy to handle in the wet or while in a 4 wheel drift. The C5 felt like a larger car than it was, but was much more stable at triple digit MPH than the R32 GTR.

I haven't driven either the new C6 ZO6 or the new GTR, but my guess is that they will each be different and enjoyable in their own way. By all accounts the ZO6 is a light weight, track warrior for the street that is loud, hot, and a handful in the wet. The GTR will likely be more polished in manners and have more amenities, with impeccable manners in the wet. It is likely to have less power and more weight than the ZO6, and you can speculate what that means on the track. **( My prediction is that in the big auto rag comparos [R&T, MT, C&D] the GTR will get narrowly edged out in pure performance by Porsche and ZO6, but may still win the comparo because of overall value and driving impression).

Just as with the Viper, Vette, and Porsche, these cars are made for different markets in which few buyers are likely to cross-shop. It appears Nissan will have created yet another niche in a very small market with the new GTR.

Good, bad, or ugly... one thing is for sure the new GTR is coming and the demand will likely far outpace supply for the first two years.

Go forth and enjoy speed!

_AL

Just thought I'd chime in here..... As a owner of a 07 Z06 and menber of corvetteforums and as a menber of this site. I'd like to show you what I wrote in that heated debate on the Vette forums.

I wrote:

Hey guys I think this thread has gotten a little out of hand. Speculation……Speculation!

As a person that has a 1k deposit and a notarized agreement at MSRP on a 08 GT-R from a large multi – brand dealer in my area….and yes I know somebody at the dealer. Unlike what someone posted there are some dealers taking 10k deposits on the GT-R but like the Z06 in 06 most dealers will have market adjustments on the GT-R when they first hit our showrooms. Nissan is only importing 1800 total of them into the US. MSRP should be right around 70k on the TT model. There is supposed to be another non – turbo base model. Again..Speculation!

I ‘m very interested in this car as a project car…..and the reasons why are that the shop that built our 710whp Evo. AMS – Automotosports in Chicago (kind of like the LPE, Vette Doctors, etc. of the Evo community) were at the SEMA show in Las Vegas this year and they have been expanding into building, tuning other cars other than Evos. They talked to some higher ups at the Nissan booth. This car is going to have a stock block that can support up to 800hp which opens up a lot of doors. This is what has our interest in this car. The potential of the motor. Most likely that is when the Evo goes up for sale. We will most probability be doing a joint build along with AMS on this car. I will not go into details on this project yet…..as promised.


Anyway the new awd GT-R which will most likely have between the rumored but not confirmed horsepower numbers of 450 on the low side and 500 on the high. (In fact latest has it at 470hp)

The target car that the GT-R is aimed at is the Porsche 997TT. Not the Z06.

I highly doubt that a stock GT-R will outperform a stock Z06, and most definitely in straight-line acceleration or top end based on hp vs weight of both cars. I do think that on a short track with a lot of tight turns it will give a Z a good race….since a 997TTdoes. Again this is only speculation.

As someone noted earlier, I hope that this horsepower war which we are in (and loving it) does not come back to bite us in the a** with all the environmentalists pushing for alternative engines, fuel and stricter emissions. Although I have to say there are shops out there experimenting with E85 that are getting almost race gas performance out of this low cost corn based fuel.

I didn’t buy the Evo for looks although it does have a rawness to it that grew on me with time and HPhttp://images.corvetteforum.com/imag...lies/wink5.gif . The GT-R IMHO does not look as good as the Z06 which I happen to love especially in Blk LOL. But I can see the GT-R in race form and I think it will look aggressively handsome.

Some people are probably going to say then why don’t you build/ modify your Z……well that’s another story ……see ya this winter ….Katech.

I also wrote:

I agree I haven't got any new info on the GT-R that I have on order from my very informed dealer in a while and last time I talked to him he said he knew of only one model and that is the TT that many of you have seen on the videos of the GT-R flooting around. I have read about the V-Spec version that will follow but if they do build it I'm sure Japan will get it first. He** we may not even that car over here.

Lets not talk about things that are that far into the future. We know the GT-R will be here in and around March - April of 08. Lets not get ahead of ourselves.

BTW as stated in my dealer agreement I have the right refuse the car if it does not meet up to what I expect out of this car. I put my money down based on on the history of this car ( brand ) rumor, speculation and the words of the guys at the shop that built my Evo.

If the car meets up to all the hype then it will be in my garage and if not something else will.....but I do think the GT-R will be special.

I see the same debate starting to happen here.......Lets just wait and see what the new GT-R brings to the table as far as performance.

JMHO:smilie_th

http://images.corvetteforum.com/imag...ser_online.gif http://images.corvetteforum.com/imag...ons/report.gif http://images.corvetteforum.com/imag...c/progress.gif

you're a newbie and much of what you say above needs some guidance. the HP restriction status has changed, please browse some GT-R ethos or history. GT-Rs are not all commonplace, GT-R will not have a headline of "barely hanging with" the 997tt ...

i want to take the point of view of helping you out instead of just flaming you only. so if you are a performance enthusiast --in general-- please google the following combinations of terms to learn about the origins of the GT-R, it's heritage, and what may very well be engineered into the new GT-R:

Bathurst
Godzilla
R32 GT-R
Prince Skyline S54
Skyline 2000GT-R
Japanese Gran Prix
KPGC10
R390 GT1
Nurburgring 24 hrs endurance
GT-R production numbers
bonded aluminum moncoque
Ferrari Enzo monocoque
Lotus Exige moncoque
racing VQ
VQHR
Infiniti Pro Series
Super GT
JGTC
R34 GT-R Z-Tune v McLaren F1
ATTESA ETS Pro
HICAS
MR suspension
variable geometry turbo
electronic assist turbo
Ferrari 599 GTB, superfast shifting

heavychevy, go here and start reading away. just go to any page and start reading:

http://forums.gtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=97

I dont want my experience on this site to be a negative one as I am only posting what is my opinion from the information I have available to me. Dont mistake my skepticism for lack of respect for import cars, I dont make a habit of degrading anyones car, even one's I dont like, and the GT-R doesnt fit in that category. I hope the car turns out to be monster and we know for sure that it's mod potential will be very high. And dont mistake me for a corvette guy, I dont like the new Z06 either, I like the old one better, I dont think the new one is reliable, hence the reason I bought a porsche (great track durability). In fact I would have bought an SRT-10 before the Z06 because #1 the Z06 is awesome stock, but who races stock???? You cant get any durable power of motor without fear of breaking it or basically rebuilding the whole thing. I would take a heads, cam Viper on the track all day over the Z06. Have you guys paid attention to SCCA racing?? the vipers were so fast they had to make them 3700#'s with driver so the other cars could have a chance and they still win in the T1 class. I would love to see some GT-R racing in SCCA and Rolex GT and even lemans. I am currently near T1 specs in my 996 turbo and 4 seconds off of the track record for SCCA at my track (with only street tires, non r comound). I love spanking the Z06's and vipers, even ones with hoosiers on them. I love that my car is the underdog and I can still win so there is no way I would be against this car, but stock is another story and I think this car fits right next to the 997 turbo, if I'm wrong, then great, heck I dont even like the 997 turbo so hopefully it will beat it, but I cant say that I would beleive in the least that it will beat the 997 GT3 and wouldnt put it any where near the upcoming GT2 or Carrera GT. Just my opinion but the more competition the better.

I cant wait for the comparos which will have :

997 GT2
GT-R
Z06
SRT-10 (08' 600 hp)
Srt-10 (pre 08')
Blue Devil
997 GT3
997 Turbo
Ford Shelby GT500R
997 Turbo
996 GT2
Noble M400
Ford GT
Carrera GT
BMW E92 M3 CSL

heavychevy, if the GT-R fails to at least match up to the 997tt, i will damn them to hell because that is the very least it should be able to handle given it's long redevelopment time. and i'd be very shocked and disappointed in Nissan were they not to enter into the Rolex series and the like as the GT-R is going to be thrust onto the world market. that would mean greater commitment to racing for Nissan, else why do it at all.

i know that Pontiac races it's GTO in the GrandAm series here in the united states and elsewhere. as well, being that both Corvette and Porsche compete here in ALMS, i would reason to follow that the GT-R will be right beside them. that would go a long way to rekindling the past GT-R glory days.

again, if Nissan refuses to implement it's GT-R in international motorsports outside of Japan i will be highly disappointed and take on a more skeptical view of the GT-R's R&D program in general. i don't see much point in releasing the GT-R (finally) to the rest of the world but keeping it in Japanese-only racing programs. that would appear to be a 1/2 measure.

Agreed bonz, though the GTR's price range should still be a step lower than the 997TT... It seems that Nissan really has a ringer here if they play their cards right.

LOL!! Corvetteforum banned me!! i cannot post a reply or log on anymore!!

the defensiveness of some of the members on that forum is really unbelievable. wow!

Very open minded aren't they? That is just sad. The moderator should have been more fair with you, as we would have been here on this forum. The moderator was just saying a few days ago that the thread would not be closed because everything was fine.

I like the fact that it appears that forum members here have many different cars with many different tastes, yet appreciate other cars openly for what they are or are not. Only time will tell. I have confidence in the product to come or will be kicking myself in the arse for a long time to come. As I said before, I am an avid enthusiast without undue brand loyalty. I either like and appreciate a car, or I don't.

:smilie_th

yeah, feel free to spread the word that i was banned without any warning and for no good reason. the double-standards there are the most extreme i've ever seen on a car chat forum. extremely childish.

Wow. I know I’m coming in late but I’ve been reading this thread and LMAO. I can’t believe they blocked you from the forum Bonz. That’s hilarious. While waiting for the GT-R, I’ve been car shopping. I drove a Z06 and my friends 996 turbo. Both cars were impressive as to acceleration. On a side note, I like the pricing that has been floating around. It is just where I hoped it would be. The posting by SPT wet my appetite even more. I like the aggressiveness of the car pictured there (hope it’s not Photoshop) and the 530hp really gets me excited. When I drove the Z06, the car was great (the roads were dry). It took some throttle control but I enjoyed the ride. I wouldn’t take it out in the rain anyway. If the 530hp is correct, the extra weight should not be a problem. If it has 530hp, it should definitely out perform the Porsche. The Z06 is a different story. That is a light car at 3100lbs and it has a lot of power (even here in Denver). Since the GT-R is turbo charged, it won’t lose as much power as the NA Z06 so it should be close in Denver. I read the posts on the corvette forum and found the same narrow-mindedness among the posters. I am anxiously waiting ‘til October or November (whenever the LA show is) as the car is supposed to be there and I will make that trip to see it (cheaper than going to Japan). Until then, I agree that all the speculation is fruitless. Trying to guess what Nissan has in store just gives me a headache and the unfounded press releases, just sets me up for possible disappointment. The other car I was looking at to replace my Lotus was a Noble M-400 (I trust that the people here know the car) but put that off to see what the GT-R would bring to the table. I have no problem plunking down 90+k for a car that will perform and the GT-R would be more useable than a Noble. The Noble doesn’t even have a trunk. I use the Lotus for mountain blasts and track days. The GT-R would do that and more. Hey Bonz, I can still post on the corvette forum so just let me know what you want to say.

ghotnit, i think they suspended me. i can post on there now. was actually shocked i was able to log on again. perhaps they wanted me to have a "time out" or cool off period. thank you very much for you kindness of offering support. that is very nice of you and i take that into account.

the reluctance to accept something that may supercede the Z06 is astonishing. it's nearly unbelievable.

be fair warned that Nissan will NOT disappoint with the GT-R. if anything, they cannot afford to. and yes, Noble makes an awesome car. good taste.

i officially became a moderator today. thank you, ali for the opportunity of duty.

-chad

Time to update the thread. The launch in near.....

Hi everyone, I am new to the forum and thought I would give my thoughts. I own a 2007 Z06 and if you have never driven one you should try. The car is absolutely amazing I have owned many fast cars in my life buy the Z06 is insane. I am a corvette guy deep down but my Z06 is on Ebay as I type this. I worked for nissan in the past and my daily car was a 05 350 Z. I have been waiting for the Skyline to come to the U.S. since I was 17, and now at age 32 I have finally been able to put my deposit on the first black or silver to hit my dealer. The corvette guys can not figure it out and they won't. They will never realize how revolutionary the GTR is. The Z06 is amazing but it is a race car with a license plate. The GTR is the next giant leap in the evolution of super cars. I saw the website on nissan usa and I was down at my friends dealership with a deposit for the first one he got. I did not even hesitate to get rid of the Z06, and once magazines start testing this beast and the praise from the world press is on the cover of every auto magazine. The Z06 and Viper owners will realize that they may be taken down off the pedestal very soon.

WOW you are rare and open-minded. Welcome to the forums!!

:smilie_th

Im unbiased here but on the verge of pulling the trigger on a 03 Porsche gt2 or 08 Turbo, ( have driven the amg benzes, BMW m5s z06) I drove the z06 and it is a beast, but didnt have the overall feeling or quality the Porsche has. ( but at 45% off the price its still calls my name) now im wondering about the gtr but I do have to say honestly that the car doesnt have the look and feeling my ego and ethos desires. Maybe in person its better but is anyone here feeling like it should look like more of a supercar as well as obviously driving like one ( it seems they have already achieved the latter) My only other thought is to order the Rossion ( New more refined version of the Noble 400) The rossion will crush everything in the performance realm ( well at least before you tuners start your mods) Anyway the gtr seems to be an amazing achievement already in its evident performance-I hope those who buy them drive the **** out of them and have a blast-B

The GT-R is a supercar and therefore it is one, and looks like one --it looks like the one supercar that it is.

It looks as well like a GT-R, with the heritage of GT-R appearance cues maintained. GT-R enthusiasts embrace this; others eschew it. If you are of the 911, Noble, Lambo, Ferrari camp --the GT-R is not for you. Move on.

The GT-R does not need to be anything than it already is.

Higher model variants of the GT-R are coming and will be exactly on par with GT2 and Carrera GT.

I think the GTR will look a lot different in person. I know when you look at pictures of the Z06 it really just looks like a regular corvette. But when you see it in person in really strikes you as to how wide the car is from a normal vette and it really looks much meaner in person. The GTR is looking good in pictures but I think it is one of those cars that when you see it in person you will have a whole new appreciation for it. As for the porsche it is a great car, but it I could buy two GTR's for the same money. And as for turning heads every 911 you could mistake for any other. When you see a GTR you are going to know for sure what it is. Just my 2 cents

Eat your words..
 

I love it, this guy is eating his words! The new 2009 GT-R stock runs a 7 minute/35 second lap at the Nurburgring Nordschleife with two wet spots on the track. That's 7 seconds faster then a Corvette Z06 and sixth among productions cars. All this info is in the new Motor Trend. I guess heavycheavy will have to withdrawl his , "no way this car will run mid to low 7:30's".

Anyone claiming the GT-R is "attainable" near its MSRP are smokin' crack. This car will not be available for anything less than $100K. My local stealer quoted me $60K over MSRP. No "friend at the dealership" is gonna give up the chance to make that much profit.

I agree.

We've been discussing that on NAGTROC all day today.

From what I gather, too, "MSRP" is practically meaningless, ie, it changes with market values and is a "suggestion" only pre-release. It doesn't necessarily "stick." Look at the Mustang GT500.